#27: What Happens When the Atlantic Ocean Invades the Arctic Ocean?

Quinn: Welcome to Important, Not Important. My name is Brian Colbert Kennedy.

Brian: No it's not. My name is, but your name's Quinn Emmett.

Quinn: That's right, and this is episode 27. Today's question: what happens, Brian, when the Atlantic Ocean invades the Arctic Ocean?

Brian: Not anything good.

Quinn: I thought you were going to say, "I'm not qualified to answer that," which would also have been the correct answer.

Brian: Yes, two correct answers.

Quinn: On the other hand, our guest is Julia Roberson. She's the Vice President of Relations for the Ocean Conservancy in sunny Washington, DC. From her bio, she takes complex issues, for instance, like one ocean invading another-

Brian: Uh-huh.

Quinn: And makes them real and relevant to human beings and helps us act on them. Not surprisingly, she's funny, but also way, way smarter than us.

Brian: That's not saying much.

Quinn: No, it's a pretty fucking low bar, isn't it? Speaking of things Brian that are way smarter than us-

Brian: Yeah.

Quinn: I guess is, do you watch Westworld?

Brian: Oh yeah, I watched the whole first season.

Quinn: Got it. I used the present tense and-

Brian: Oh.

Quinn: You are referring to the past.

Brian: Am I [crosstalk 00:01:22]currently watching Westworld? That answer is unfortunately, no.

Quinn: Okay, Well you got the point towards the end of the first season. This is kind of how I felt with the ocean thing. You know, everyone's, you're on the ocean, you're part of the food chain. It's like the ocean doesn't care about you because-

Brian: Right.

Quinn: The ocean's powerful and Moana has that shit in there and it's all true. The ocean doesn't give a fuck about us or whichever fish. It's just like-

Brian: The ocean was here before us.

Quinn: It's going to be here long after, right? It does feel like Westworld, this whole thing sometimes feels like we're sure getting what's coming to us. You know?

Brian: Yeah.

Quinn: Whether it's-

Brian: If you asked for something-

Quinn: ... making killer robots then you're Like, "Oh, I can go do anything in this world and kill people and beat up women, or minorities," it's going to be fine. That's not going to come back to haunt me, and I can put a bunch of trash in the ocean, and shoot smoke into the sky, it's all good.

Brian: Yeah, yeah. What's wild is how long we've been able to do it and now, just now I feel like we're sort of getting in the idea that shit's fucked.

Quinn: Are you talking about with killer sex robots or with the planet?

Brian: Oh are we not talking about killer sex robots anymore? 

Quinn: Oh okay. I mean, here's the thing about the planet, it's true, and yet the Industrial Revolution was, I don't know 110 years ago or a little more-ish.

Brian: Yeah.

Quinn: So, not very long. Which, to counter what you said, is more of a like wow, we really fucked up really fast.

Brian: Yeah.

Quinn: Right?

Brian: I guess that's it. It's so fast.

Quinn: It doesn't seem fast to you because you weren't alive that whole time-

Brian: Yeah.

Quinn: But if you think back over the scope of things, not great. Especially, was it Doctor Marvel, best name ever. Doctor Marvel-

Brian: Such a good name.

Quinn: Who was like, "Actually it's supposed to be cooling right now," and it's like boy-

Brian: Right.

Quinn: Not great.

Brian: Not great.

Quinn: Anyways, I'm not done with season two of Westworld. I'm way behind, bouncing between that and the Expanse, also amazing.

Brian: Never heard of it.

Quinn: So good. So it, it's space opera, fantastic, on SyFy. [crosstalk 00:03:27]. 

Brian: Are you caught up on-

Quinn: Moving to Amazon.

Brian: Oh sure.

Quinn: Go ahead.

Brian: Just wondering how you're doing on episodes of The Real Housewives of New York?

Quinn: I'm not going to answer that, Brian. But I will tell you there's a special show we talked about with Julia-

Brian: Oh yes.

Quinn: It's so fucking great.

Brian: It really is.

Quinn: People ask us sometimes about self-care. Let me tell you, this show, that show, not this show, fucking not this show.

Brian: This-

Quinn: That show, that show, just watch it at the end of the night. You will sleep soundly.

Brian: That actually usually is when I watch it too and it really is such a wonderful way to go to bed.

Quinn: If it doesn't leave you like a bucket of tears to dump out in the sink and a smile on your face-

Brian: Yep.

Quinn: I don't know man, maybe this isn't for you.

Brian: Yeah I'm excited for everybody to listen to, well this whole episode obviously, but I thought that was pretty important when she was talking about that cause it's underrated, I think, making sure that you're okay because you're not going to be able to do any good if you're not good. I think people don't think about that enough.

Quinn: Right and there's getting back to neutral which is like, blah-

Brian: Right, right.

Quinn: I was in a bad place and get back to neutral. Anyways, I think people will get it. Yeah, it will help.

Brian: Yeah, she was awesome, Julia was great.

Quinn: All right man, let's-

Brian: I'll catch up on Westworld, I'm sorry.

Quinn: What was the soundtrack you still haven't listened to? What's that called again?

Brian: Yet another episode of this podcast has come and gone and I still have not listened to "The Greatest Showman" soundtrack. But-

Quinn: It's like you don't have a million dreams or you haven't come alive yet.

Brian: I am alive. I do have a million dreams.

Quinn: But you're not dreaming with your eyes wide open.

Brian: God, I wish you would stop saying that.

Quinn: Okay, let's go talk to Julia.

Brian: Let's go talk to Julia.

Quinn: Our guest today is Julia Roberson. Together we're going to ask, what happens when the Atlantic Ocean invades the Arctic Ocean? Julia, welcome.

Julia Roberson: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Quinn: For sure.

Brian: The feeling is mutual. Really quick, Julia just tell us who you are and what you do.

Julia Roberson: My name is Julia Roberson. I am Vice President of Communications for Ocean Conservancy. We are a non-profit dedicated to ocean conservation, as you might have guessed from the name of the organization.

Quinn: No shit?

Julia Roberson: We-I know, isn't that surprising? We work on the big challenges facing the ocean and there's a ton of them. We'll get into that in a second.

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: My job is really to communicate about the incredible work that our scientists, and program, and policy makers do and try to communicate it in a way that inspires people to take action to care about the ocean and to not get overwhelmed because that is pretty easy to do these days.

Quinn: It definitely is and I want to get to that today because I think people are feeling that in a number of ways and not just about the climate or just about existential-ish things. Every day it feels like there's fucking something new. But, this is the really make or break stuff, the ticking clock, as they say. 

Quinn: Brian, you want to set us up?

Brian: They're always saying that. Yeah, let's get going.

Brian: Like you sort of just said here we're all about actions. We're big believers in action-oriented questions. Clearly you guys are all about that, too, in communications. I think our interests align 

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Brian: Perfectly. 

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Brian: And let's get to it.

Quinn: Alright. Julia, we do start with one important question to really get to the heart of why you're here, but instead of saying, "Tell us your life story," we like to ask, Julia, why are you vital to the survival of the species?

Julia Roberson: Wow.

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-, Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Brian: What do you mean? That's just a normal everyday question.

Julia Roberson: Yep.

Quinn: That's right.

Julia Roberson: I was thinking about that on my bike ride in. I was like-

Brian: We thought so, yeah.

Julia Roberson: Why am I vital to this planet?

Quinn: But you know what, think about it. Be bold and be honest. 

Julia Roberson: Wow.

Quinn: You are here for, both on the podcast and on this planet for some sort of reason, either you feel like you were born into it or you've made yourself of it, or you've discovered that's what you're interested in. Why are you in this time of necessary action vital to the survival of the species?

Julia Roberson: Oh wow. This is an amazing question and I'm probably going to have a ridiculous answer, but I'm definitely going to go home and think about this more. 

Quinn: Okay.

Julia Roberson: But I feel like one of the reasons that I'm here, tailor-made for this moment in time, is that I am, at heart, an optimist. 

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: My default is to see and believe that there's still amazing things that we can do to, you know, help each other and help the planet. It sounds really cheesy, but my default is not dark. I think that kind of optimism is probably needed to-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: Get us not just through these times right now, but-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: Hopefully to solve some of the bigger problems that we're facing as a society. 

Quinn: True.

Julia Roberson: Also, to remember that we're all people with feelings, and, you know, likes, and dislikes along the way, which I've been trying to remember because I think I forgot that for a little while.

Quinn: Easy to do that, this is the lazy explanation, but the other side has never really given a shit about your thoughts and feelings, but it's important that we do do that because that's the only way we're going to help move them over to action.

Quinn: Listen Julia, next thing we want to do is, we usually try to do is establish some context for today's question because it's a weird one, but it's an important one. That means it's time for something we call Context 101 with Professor Brian. Legend has it, Professor Brian has been expelled from a number of high profile institutions of higher learning.

Julia Roberson: What?

Brian: Sure, sure.

Quinn: Variety of, honestly, pretty soft misdemeanors, mostly involving parking tickets, but we don't like to look in the past here at Important, Not Important.

Brian: They shouldn't charge that much for street cleaning.

Quinn: Okay.

Julia Roberson: Yeah, fair point.

Quinn: Whatever you say pal. So Brian, tell us, give us your book report. What have you learned about the ocean this week?

Brian: Well, it's big.

Quinn: Good start.

Julia Roberson: Oh my God, A, A, right here, right out of the gate.

Brian: Huge, it's huge. 

Quinn: Uh-huh.

Brian: It's the only one in our solar system that we're 100% sure about-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Brian: 100%. Europa, Europa is cool and Saturn's moon, what's Saturn's moon called?

Quinn: Enceladus.

Brian: Yeah, Enceladus.

Julia Roberson: Oh God.

Brian: They're like the new kids on the block, maybe there's something going on under the ice, but we don't know yet.

Quinn: I hope it has thousands of teeth, whatever it is.

Brian: Eww, no. Anyways, ours is, ours is pretty awesome. 

Quinn: Right.

Brian: It's salty, so don't drink it.

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: There's that. 

Brian: And you would-

Julia Roberson: Can I just say you get major points for saying the ocean singular, because a lot of people talk about the ocean plural and-

Brian: Oh right.

Julia Roberson: We tend to think of it as just one ocean that happens to, you know-

Quinn: Yeah.

Julia Roberson: Be separated by different land mass. So yay, way to go with the singular.

Quinn: Good job Brian. you can stop right there.

Brian: Ocean, singular. Thank you, I'm basically a scientist. No I'm yet.

Quinn: Always with your scientist man.

Brian: But seriously scientists, they said that we've explored about 5% of the ocean, 5% of the whole thing, which is insane.

Quinn: That's crazy.

Julia Roberson: Yep. We know more about the surface of the moon than we do about the deepest, darkest depths of the ocean and the ocean floor.

Quinn: This is a good moment, by the way, again, I mentioned here and I mentioned to you, I've got some small children, some humans that I somehow created, Blue Planet 1 and 2, and obviously the Planet Earth series are amazing. Number two is nuts. It came out last year. You know what? They're just like, you know what? It's like they were bragging this time. It's like oh hey yeah it's just a new Blue Planet, it's like the last one, you know, with just like better cameras, oh and here's a fish that uses fucking tools. What's up now?

Julia Roberson: Oh my God, yes. I forget that fish's name, but that fish is now my hero. So we-

Quinn: I was just stomping around my living room going, "What?"

Brian: Insanity.

Julia Roberson: I was so excited for you to say that because we, Ocean Conservancy, we did a sort of series finale with BBC America-

Quinn: Yeah.

Julia Roberson: Here in Washington D.C. We showed episode seven on the big screen at the museum. It was amazing. It's amazing to see in your living room, just the incredible technological advances that enables the producers and the videographers to capture this crazy animal shit that they do. It's incred- Then to be able to see it on the big screen and to like, hear David Attenborough's voice-

Quinn: Oh God.

Julia Roberson: You know, talking about why he's still hopeful-

Quinn: Yeah.

Julia Roberson: It was the highlight of my year. It was incredible.

Quinn: Oh yeah, it's-

Brian: It was- I watched it sober. Just as a reminder, marijuana is legal in a lot of places and if you haven't seen that shit until you've been high, wow.

Julia Roberson: Do you know that it was the number one show in the UK last year? So imagine Blue Planet 2 beating, like, the Superbowl or the Game of Thrones-

Brian: Right, right.

Julia Roberson: In the United States?

Quinn: Well I hope so. They're a bunch of fucking islands and they've got some shit coming towards them, so-

Brian: Game of Thrones is pretty good though.

Quinn: Okay, Brian.

Brian: So yes, by the way, I think it's called tusk fish, we can get back to it later.

Quinn: Okay.

Julia Roberson: Yes.

Brian: Yeah. So it's- Point is, it's incredible out there-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Brian: But we have a slight issue where the ocean absorbs most of the CO2 that we're pumping out. It seems like, you know, like the ocean's had enough of our shit, basically. 

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Brian: It's getting way warmer. The underwater river things that drive like our shipping commerce and weather, they're changing.

Quinn: Jet streams, is that the technical-

Brian: [crosstalk 00:13:21]. 

Quinn: No, jet streams are in the air, it's the underwater ones.

Brian: The underwater jet stream.

Julia Roberson: It's a gulf stream and like the currents.

Quinn: The gulf, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Julia Roberson: Yeah.

Quinn: The ones-

Brian: Something stream. 

Quinn: Where a couple months ago they're like, "They're reversing." I'm like, "That can't- That's not great."

Brian: [crosstalk 00:13:33] 

Julia Roberson: And they're slowing down.

Brian: The ocean, like we just said, it's one big ocean, it's all connected despite the five names, but they're not all the same like composition and temperature-wise. The Arctic and the Antarctic, clearly they're colder, or at least they have been for a few millennia.

Quinn: Fucking cold.

Brian: Cold, freezing balls cold, very cold.

Quinn: Right.

Brian: Or they used to be until, let's see, oh until humans. 

Quinn: Right.

Brian: Also, funny story, the Arctic, the one up top, for those of you, who, like me, are constantly wondering why they named it Arctic and Antarctic, they're basically the same thing. But anyway, that one's getting invaded by the Atlantic Ocean.

Quinn: Right, that's what the news says.

Brian: That's according to the news, which like we said, it seems like every week you hear about something that's contributing to the warming of the Arctic and all the ice. Well if you have heard that, you're right.

Quinn: Right.

Brian: This one's bad.

Quinn: Yep, thanks Brian that was great.

Quinn: We've had just some enlightening context. Let's crack down, Julia, we've talked about this, we're going to address it sort of comprehensively. Exactly what happens with the Atlantic Ocean invading the Arctic Ocean? What the hell is going on? Again, I know you're not a marine biologist and you're more on the policy side, but maybe you can help us understand it a bit.

Julia Roberson: Sure, well I think there's a few things that are happening, right? The Arctic is indeed warming. It is one of the fastest warming places on the planet. 

Julia Roberson: Fun fact, the Gulf of Maine-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: Is also one of the fastest warming bodies of water on the planet. There's all sorts of things that are happening when, you know, usually cold water is meeting much warmer waters. It changes the makeup of the water column. It changes the makeup of, you know, the ice, the sea ice that is traditionally in the Arctic and in the, you know, North Atlantic. And it changes, you know, the types of fish and fisheries that are available in these areas. There's a lot of things happening to the ocean. A lot of that is being driven by climate change. That is one of the single biggest issues facing the ocean right now. 

Julia Roberson: Just to touch on one of the things I mentioned, fisheries, for example, lobster, do you guys like lobster?

Quinn: What are you talking about? This is America, right?

Julia Roberson: Exactly, yeah. How can you not like lobster? Lobster roll, my personal favorite.

Brian: Oh, so good.

Julia Roberson: So good, so good, with the butter and the lemon.

Brian: Mm, fabulous.

Julia Roberson: Amazing. Basically, lobster are actually moving, moving north. 90% of the catch in Maine is comprised of lobster-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: So that's like a billion dollar industry. Those lobster are moving north, like they are headed to Canada. If you look at the diversity of the fisheries that we traditionally caught in Maine, like even 20, 30, 50 years ago, it wasn't just lobster. There were a whole host of other fisheries that were economically viable that were a part of these waters. That is changing now. The lobster that were traditionally found in New England, and Rhode Island, and Massachusetts are now in Maine. Those lobster are likely going to be moving further north to Canada as the water warms. What that mean for those communities that have depended on it? 

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: What does it mean for the North Atlantic?

Julia Roberson: In the article that I read about the paper that you're referencing, about the Arctic and the Atlantic meeting, you know, it looks like that could be an initial boon for the cod fishery, but what does that look like in the future? There's just all sorts of things that are changing at a really rapid pace-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: That we just don't know how it's going to affect us and the animals in the ocean.

Quinn: Yeah. Yeah, the fishery stuff is just incredible. I don't think people realize the massive state-wide or region-wide economies that have been built on this relative period of stasis there. 

Quinn: The article, one of the things it was saying to get to the technicality of it, is, this is from Axios, "With less sea ice forming and being transported around these two areas where they're meeting, there's less fresh water transport as well." It says, "This trend is key, because it allows the well-mixed Atlantic waters to make inroads into the frontier region of the Arctic, in turn, discouraging the formation of more sea ice and feeding an ongoing cycle." Good times.

Julia Roberson: Yeah, the lack of sea ice is something that, you know, is, it's a trend that's been happening. The amounts seem to get, you know, less and less each year, every time we mark the end of a season where scientists have been keeping track of it. It has a lot of implications for animals that depend on sea ice, that haul out on it. 

Julia Roberson: It also has, you know- This is something that we don't often think about, but it's something that Ocean Conservancy is working on a lot-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: Is shipping and what this means for- You know, what does shipping look like in an ice free Arctic-

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: In the summer months? 

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: There are a lot of- There's a cruise ship company. I think it's called the Crystal Serenity, is that the ship that's actually, you know-

Quinn: I don't know.

Julia Roberson: Making the first-

Quinn: I don't know, it's an amazing name though.

Julia Roberson: Summer voyage, you know-

Quinn: Right.

Julia Roberson: Through the Arctic, now that there's less sea ice.

Quinn: Right.

Brian: Wow.

Julia Roberson: So what does that mean if there are bigger vessels moving through these, you know, very sensitive regions? These are places where it's polar bears, it's whales, it's some of the most incredible migratory routes for some of these incredible animals that you see on Blue Planet 2. Imagine some of these big vessels moving through these regions, when there's not a lot of rules and regulations to keep track of.

Brian: I love that too, because it just seems like that's the type of thing that the average person wouldn't think about, is how does that change everything? 

Quinn: Sure.

Brian: It really does.

Brian: I also just want to point out, it's pretty meta, but as much as we try to make these like podcast episodes evergreen and not so timely, this news item isn't, you know, "Oh hey, there's a hurricane coming right now."

Quinn: Right.

Julia Roberson: Right.

Quinn: It's going to be devastating, but it's over and then we deal with it.

Brian: Oh yeah, and they are coming, they are coming.

Quinn: Right.

Brian: What we're talking about is the Atlantic Ocean has started to invade the Arctic and it's not going to stop really, as far as my medium-sized brain can comprehend. It's something that we are going to be living with, and feeling the effects of for the foreseeable future until, well, until Waterworld basically.

Quinn: Right, yeah, right.

Julia Roberson: Underrated movie.

Quinn: Yeah, and that's the thing-

Brian: So good.

Quinn: Some of these news items, again, and we cover them weekly, aren't just like, this bad thing, it's happened. It's like this has become more, we've just realized that these things are begun and now it's a part of our lives and our society. It's less breaking news and more about updates on those things. This was just, again, where the Arctic is being assaulted on a number of fronts. This is just one that, at least I, you know, and probably then the masses after that, have discovered. It seems to be pretty vital.

Quinn: Here's the thing, we talked about this a little bit offline I think, but I hesitate to ever paint these problems we're facing as greater than our capacity to deal with them, as much as we like to call them, sort of, existential-ish, but this one and seemingly ones like it, do feel a little bit like a runaway train, right? The scope of the ocean can feel massive.

Brian: Yeah, and isn't this really where it's, like, you know, it's not great now, but the effects are actually running 40 years behind, comes to the play. We're just- You think it's bad now?

Quinn: Right.

Brian: Hold on.

Quinn: Look, I do always want to be honest, it's not chippy optimistic over here all day. I mean, Brian is a lot of time, and it's fucking annoying, but-

Brian: People hate it.

Quinn: Sometimes, even I have to vent. Our whole tone is built on like, hey, this sucks, let's act on it. Or this thing is awesome, here's how you can support it, right?

Brian: Right.

Julia Roberson: Right.

Quinn: It does get heavy sometimes. But, like you said, so you're an optimist and you deal with this shit every day. So that's got to be a pretty impressive super power. I want to capitalize on that today. Like you said, you're not a marine biologist, you're on the policy and communications front. Let's try to spend this episode now dialing into how we, and our listeners, can address and effect this issue specifically, right?

Julia Roberson: Sure.

Brian: That's what you do at Ocean Conservancy, yes? That's what you're all about.

Julia Roberson: We do, exactly. Before we dive into, you know, what people can do and how we at Ocean Conservancy have been inspired and continue to try to work with people to take action on some of these big ass issues, there's a lot of things that I see that actually do give me hope. It's not necessarily these types of news articles, admittedly. But when I first got into- When climate change was really starting to become more and more a conversation that was happening in the marine conservation space, I was working on seafood at the time. I was working on sustainable seafood. I had this moment, and I was like, "Holy shit, we should all stop working on seafood, because there's not going to be seafood left. We just like, all need to shift to climate-

Quinn: Right.

Julia Roberson: Everybody, like, mass exodus to climate people. We got to do this.

Julia Roberson: I remember having these conversations with my boss and he was like, there are things that we need to do today, to make sure that have, like, we are fighting for the things that we care about, not just the things that we're scared of, you know? 

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: Which is climate.

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: And so, I feel like there really does need to be that balance. That's one thing that I think of when I see these stories.

Julia Roberson: I think the other thing, is that when I was working on, I started working on ocean acidification about six years ago, and that's a great topic that we can dive into a little bit because-

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: Some of the impacts that we're dealing with ocean acidification, which is the ocean literally becoming more acidic as carbon emissions are absorbed by the ocean. Some of the impacts that are being dealt with in the Pacific Northwest and in other places, the water that is impacting the businesses, impacting the ability for shellfish to grow, is 50 years old, which is also kind of cool that there's like-

Brian: Wow.

Julia Roberson: 50 year old water. 

Quinn: Sure. Sure.

Julia Roberson: There's much older water. That's a great example of what Brian was just saying about how, you know, some of these impacts, we're going to be catching up to them. 

Julia Roberson: I think the thing that gives me hope in that regard is that when I was starting to work on climate change a few years ago everybody was only talking about mitigation. It was mitigation, mitigation, mitigation. If you were talking about adaptation, if you were talking about the realities of the fact that changes are already taking place-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: It was like you were waving a white flag. I just don't buy into that. We've already fundamentally altered the planet. 

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: The planet has fundamentally altered many times before. 

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: The planet itself is going to be fine. It's what we are doing, you know-

Quinn: Right.

Julia Roberson: For our future-

Quinn: Right.

Julia Roberson: That we're going to be-

Quinn: It's whether we're still allowed to hang out anymore.

Julia Roberson: Exactly. It's whether we get the cool pass to stick around. I do think there's more and more people who have a clear-eyed view around, yes things have changed, what can we do now to address some of those changes, and prevent, you know, some of the worst impacts of future ones.

Julia Roberson: I take hope that there is this conversation happening around mitigation of, you know, emissions and, you know, some of the worst impacts of climate change, and the fact that like, yeah, we've changed things. Things have already changed.

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: How are we going to deal with that?

Quinn: This is a question we usually throw into our lightning round, but, just on this topic, it sounds like you might be, but none of us are. I'm imagining you're not totally perfect. What do you do-

Julia Roberson: What? How dare you, I'm hanging up right now.

Quinn: Well, we don't need to tell everybody-

Brian: Quinn.

Quinn: About the headphone issue, okay? But Julia-

Julia Roberson: For all the listeners, it took us a solid 30 minutes to get to this place.

Quinn: 33.

Brian: Went for it [inaudible 00:26:17] into it. I love it.

Julia Roberson: It was all Brian's fault, sorry I had to [crosstalk 00:26:21].

Quinn: Oh, I mean no, I mean, they know that. 

Brian: [crosstalk 00:26:21]

Quinn: We don't need to tell them that.

Quinn: What do you do when you get overwhelmed by this shit? What do you actually do? There's all this talk of self-care, go for a run, take a nap, drink, whatever. How do you deal, specifically?

Julia Roberson: Well, I watch Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.

Brian: Oh it's so good.

Quinn: Oh it's so good.

Brian: It's really good.

Julia Roberson: I am obsessed with it, so I started watching it-

Quinn: If that show doesn't make you feel optimistic-

Brian: Very good show.

Quinn: About humanity, Jesus.

Julia Roberson: Thank you. Thank you. I totally watch Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Admittedly, I'm only on season one, but I'm really enjoying that show. I don't know if it's also because I'm from the South and it's filmed in Georgia this second round-

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: But I love it. 

Brian: It gets better.

Julia Roberson: The other thing I do- It gives me hope, oh my gosh, like they're changing the lifestyles of a 57 year old from Georgia. 

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: I don't know, I think it's just so great.

Julia Roberson: The other thing I do is I take a social media break. I'm currently on one-

Brian: Smart.

Julia Roberson: Right now. Sometimes that feels a little bit like malpractice, because of my, the nature of my job. Sometimes I just can't take it and it seems like it exacerbates the differences, and the, you know, things that wear me down, which is why I have to go watch Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So-

Brian: So important.

Quinn: Again, this is a little, a little meta, and then we're going to get into specifics here, I do want to. This hits with two of my specific issues with humanity in general, especially America-

Julia Roberson: Just two?

Quinn: Which was like our- No, it's just like, we have this complete fucking inability to process and attend to things that we either can't see or don't just directly experience every day. Basically if we just-

Brian: Like that gas leak in LA a couple years ago, you remember that?

Quinn: Things that we can't see or things- Oh yeah, right-

Brian: Nightmare.

Quinn: The thing that we couldn't see-

Brian: Can't see it. 

Quinn: But now everyone has said it is an- It was an environmental nightmare.

Brian: What if it was black?

Quinn: Right, what if we could see that, if we could see the increased carbon in the skies and in our oceans, right? 

Brian: Yeah.

Quinn: New Delhi would tell you they can see it perfectly fucking fine. 

Brian: Yeah.

Quinn: I almost wish there was some way to change it, right?

Julia Roberson: Yeah.

Quinn: You talked a little bit about the ocean acidification, like, is that what's happening with coral reefs?

Julia Roberson: Yeah, there's a lot of things happening with coral reefs, and ocean acidification is one of them. Like I mentioned, ocean acidification is caused by carbon emissions being absorbed by the ocean turning it more acidic. It's a very straightforward chemical process. It's not- It's a separate process from climate change. Climate change is obviously greenhouse emissions including carbon. Ocean acidification is directly related to, you know, carbon emissions specifically. The fact that the ocean is becoming more acidic means that shell building animals, including coral, have difficulty building their shells, or in some cases, like oysters in the Pacific Northwest, those shells are starting to dissolve.

Quinn: Great.

Julia Roberson: You touched on this idea of why, why we're not able as a, you know, society I guess, to respond to climate change. I think that's such an interesting point because there's a lot of anger around that and there's sometimes a lot of unintentional judgment of like we're all just fucking idiots for not thinking that climate change is the most important thing that we should all be working on every single day. I think there's such interesting research that, I think, there's been done around how it is a tailor-made problem for us to like not be able to respond to it well, right? 

Julia Roberson: It is- Our brains and our makeup mean that we are like designed to dismiss it. I work on this stuff every day and sometimes I'm like, "Oh my God, another climate change story, like what do you want me to do? I'm already biking-

Quinn: Yeah, right. 

Julia Roberson: I'm already biking, I'm already-

Quinn: Right, Jesus.

Julia Roberson: Reusing my reusable bottle. What else do you want me to do?

Julia Roberson: I think there is-

Brian: That's very interesting.

Julia Roberson: Yeah, I think there's a little bit of an acknowledgement that needs to happen around like, yeah we don't get it, we don't immediately respond to things that are not visible right in front of us. How do we do that instead of, you know-

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: Passing judgment around, you know, we're just, you know, sticking our head in the sand and waiting for poor countries to, to really be fucked?

Quinn: Right. Yeah, Jesus. There's this little story, and I'm going to mangle this, and I'm sure it's not completely correct, but out at the Cedar Sinai Hospital system in Los Angeles, which is amazing and gave me all of my children.

Julia Roberson: Awesome.

Quinn: They had this issue where they were having- And every hospital has these issues with the, with all the hospital born illnesses that run around. People, notably the doctors and surgeons, just weren't washing their hands, and this was a few years ago. The Cedars nurses, and again, I'm sure this is not totally correct, basically, ran under a microscope images of some surgeons hands and made that the background on the desktop computers all around the hospital. 

Julia Roberson: Wow.

Brian: Whoa.

Quinn: They were so fucking horrified by what they saw there, that like the number of basically hand washing skyrocketed and the number of disease plummeted to almost nothing. That's my point is like, you know, I wish we could put something in the air that just shows- We had smog for a long time and now we're like, "Oh look, the smog's gone," but actually everything is just as bad you know? So the people could just see what is happened and what they're doing.

Julia Roberson: I think that is so interesting. One of the things that I've thought a lot about are, is the example of, you know, the ozone layer and how we kinda came together as, as, you know, as industries, as governments, as-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: Personal and individual outrage to fix that problem. I've thought a lot about that in the context of, you know, climate more broadly.

Julia Roberson: Ocean acidification is an interesting one because, you know, when I first started working on this issue, there was a lot of linkages to climate change. People were talking about ocean acidification and climate change in the same breath. It was like ocean acidification is climate change's evil twin. As a communicator I was like, "What the hell? Why would we do that?" Climate change is toxic right now.

Julia Roberson: When we started working on it at Ocean Conservancy, it was, you know, after the climate change bill failure in the Senate, Waxman-Markey. It felt like it was incredibly the most divisive it had been as an issue. When we looked at ocean acidification, like I mentioned earlier, it's a straightforward sort of chemical process. There's visible results that you can see in a lab and in shellfish grower's businesses that, you know, carbon emissions are actually impacting shells. There's a personal story around, you know, some of the businesses, for example, in Washington state and in Maine, you know, these are five and six generation businesses that employ, you know, a significant number of people. In some cases, you know, these shellfish farms and operations are the largest businesses in these rural counties and regions. 

Julia Roberson: The way Ocean Conservancy approached this issue is rather than talking about the science of ocean acidification, the fact that the pH of the ocean is changing, we talked about the impacts that are actually occurring right now, and the fact that it is impacting people and businesses today. It's not like the perfect example of visible carbon emissions, which I agree would be incredibly helpful, but I feel like there's ways to take some of these issues to a more personal level and tell a story that makes it more real, that makes it, you know, something that is tangible. 

Julia Roberson: When we talked about this issue on the Hill, in Congress, you know, we weren't asking decision makers to be like, and now you need to sign on to that really toxic bill on climate change, which is dead in the water. We weren't going from zero to the biggest ask we could make. We took a step-wise approach. We were like, okay, this is a big ass problem. Ocean acidification is a fucking huge problem for shellfish growers in these places. Dungeness crab is a huge industry on the West Coast. Maine lobster, a billion dollar industry for that state. 

Brian: Wow.

Julia Roberson: We do not know how it's going to impact them, so let's start funding some research to figure how that's going to work, and you're getting them in the door that way.

Quinn: And I guess it's, you know, it's easy for people to be like, oh that little fish went away. What's that going to do until you realize it's like the fucking butterfly effect and like ten things happen. It's almost a good- I'm going to catch heat for this, it's almost a good thing it's lobsters because so many fucking rich people care in the Northeast about their lobsters. When that industry goes away, oh my God, I mean there's at least-

Brian: Right.

Quinn: Three states that are just decimated.

Brian: Hey whatever, whatever it takes to get through to everyone I guess.

Quinn: Right.

Brian: Let's get to some specific actions we can take. I have a feeling that our listeners feel, you know, the same way we do, sometimes. I hope anyway, that's what we're trying to do here. We get to stand in for them and ask fancy people questions and get advice.

Quinn: Right.

Brian: Seriously, sometimes it's like, how the hell, how the hell are we going to fix the ocean? Julia, what are you doing and what can we, very importantly, what can we all be doing to support you?

Julia Roberson: That is such an awesome question. There's a few things. I'm not going to go through all the things that we can do to, you know, reduce our carbon footprint. I feel like-

Quinn: No, no, let's take it bird-by-bird today. Let's, you know, make this, again, not bite size, but what's something specifically, folk- A few things, specifically, folks can be doing?

Julia Roberson: I think there's a few things specific to the ocean. One of the biggest issues that we haven't actually touched on yet-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: Is the issue of trash in the ocean. 

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: I'm sure, you know, your listeners' Facebook feeds have been filled with images of, you know, sea birds that have had, you know, the content of their stomach showing plastic.

Brian: Oh yeah.

Quinn: True, yeah.

Julia Roberson: Like the turtle-

Quinn: All the plastic straws and everything.

Julia Roberson: And the straw up his nostril. I will never be able to get that out of my memory. Plastic in the ocean is a huge problem. Trash in the ocean, huge problem. We've been working on this issue for 30 plus years now. Over eight million metric tons of trash go into ocean every year, that's like a New York City sized dump truck emptying, you know, its contents into the ocean every single minute, every single hour, every single day. When you think about some of the bigger issues facing the ocean like climate change, like, you know, the Arctic warming, things like trash, that we know how to solve. We can solve this. We created this problem-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: We can solve it. If we can protect and, you know, buffer some of the, you know, the ocean environments against some of these very real threats, they're better able to respond to some of these other big challenges like climate change, and so let's get down to it.

Julia Roberson: What can individuals do around keeping trash out of the ocean? There's a few things. First of all, skip the straw. We use an insane amount of straws.

Quinn: It's preposterous. It's like a made up number, it's like 500 million straws a day or some shit.

Julia Roberson: Yes. That's actually, I think that number was figured out by a nine year old, which this nine year old has an amazing-

Quinn: You know what-

Julia Roberson: Future-

Quinn: At this point, whatever...

Julia Roberson: Ahead of him. 

Quinn: Yeah.

Julia Roberson: I think there's some questions about the actual numbers, but yes, we use a ridiculous amount of straws as Americans every single day. Some people have very legitimate needs for those straws and there's so many of us that do not need them and that could easily use an alternative or just not use a straw at all.

Julia Roberson: I don't know if you guys saw the news this week about Starbucks announced that they are phasing-

Brian: Yeah, by 2020 I think.

Julia Roberson: By 2020, phasing straws out of all their stores worldwide by 2020. That has the equivalent of something like thirteen thousand metric tons of straws that, you know-

Brian: Wow.

Julia Roberson: That could potentially make their way to the ocean but that are not going to now. That's a huge, a huge leap forward by Starbucks. We want other companies and businesses to follow suit. So skip the straw, bottom line, we don't need them.

Quinn: Alright.

Julia Roberson: The second thing that I think people can do that we have been organizing for 30 years is something called the International Coastal Cleanup. Every September 15th we have people around the U.S. and around the world come out to a beach, or a coast, or a water way, or a river system, and pick up trash for a few hours. It doesn't sound like, you know, a lot. You can certainly say, "Well what am I doing?" You're actually doing something for not just your community, but you're doing something for the ocean. What we have found with cleanups and with trash in the ocean more broadly, is that it is a gateway issue to get people to care about some of these bigger problems like sustainable fisheries-

Brian: Yeah.

Julia Roberson: Climate change and how it's impacting the ocean. We start with something like trash because it is something that literally all of us produce, we can see it. When we were talking about tangible, you know, impacts to the ocean-

Quinn: True.

Julia Roberson: Just about every beach in the world, you're going to be able to see trash on the beach, or in the water.

Quinn: Come to Santa Monica, Jesus.

Julia Roberson: Right? I think that we actually have a cleanup that we're organizing there next Saturday. You should come out-

Quinn: Yeah.

Julia Roberson: You should come out for the cleanup.

Brian: Oh really?

Julia Roberson: Yeah, I'll send you the link. It's coming out and cleaning up. It's involving you in the neighborhood. It's the local to global, you know, concept that I think we've-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: All talked about.

Julia Roberson: Then there's a few other things. One of the biggest things is that at Ocean Conservancy we're based in Washington D.C. We spend a lot of time on the Hill talking to members of Congress about-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: Ocean issues and representing our members on things that they care about. Making sure your representative knows that you care about the ocean, sign up for Ocean Conservancy's email list. We will tell you and alert you when you need to reach out to your member of Congress and say, actually this is a terrible budget for ocean protection and research, we need to see that number higher. Or, this is a bill that is really going to spell trouble for America's fish and fishermen. We really need you to talk to your member of Congress and tell them that this is important to you. Just making sure that you're engaging and making your voice heard on, you know, obviously a whole of issues these days, but the ocean is critical and so could really use your voice.

Quinn: I love it.

Brian: Hell yeah. 

Brian: Alright, so we are definitely getting a little close to time here, we know you got to roll. Julia, thank you so very much for your time today.

Quinn: Thank you, and all the time-

Julia Roberson: You are so welcome.

Quinn: You put into your headphones, we're counting that too.

Brian: Seriously, thank you.

Julia Roberson: It's like an hour and a half podcast then.

Brian: Yeah [crosstalk 00:41:35].

Quinn: It's basically all day.

Julia Roberson: It really, it really took a village. It took the three of us to really figure that out. I appreciate all the-

Brian: We frigging did it.

Julia Roberson: Screenshot instructions.

Quinn: Brian, you didn't do anything.

Brian: Quinn's very good. Well it's the royal we.

Quinn: Sure, okay.

Julia Roberson: It was the royal we, sure.

Brian: Hey Julia, anybody else that we should talk to?

Quinn: People out there, changing the world, doing existential things, either amazing new, cool things that are going to turn us into robots or, you know, immune from disease with Crispr or people like you, trying to defend the planet?

Julia Roberson: Oh my gosh. I can think of a list of five people off the top of my head that I think would be awesome for you to talk to.

Julia Roberson: Wait, do you want me to list them or do you want me to send you an email?

Quinn: You just said, I can a list of five people off the top of my head, so...

Brian: Now that you said it you can't take it back.

Julia Roberson: Oh my god, of course. One is Jeff Waters. 

Quinn: Okay.

Julia Roberson: He is the director of our government relations-

Quinn: Okay.

Julia Roberson: Team and program. He is incredible. He has done research in Hawaii. He staffed Senator Cantwell on her ocean issues when she was Chairman of the Subcommittee on Ocean-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: In the Senate. He just has a really phenomenal view of what is happening on the Hill and making that sort of real and relevant to all of us, you know, whether we live by the ocean or not.

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: So I think Jeff would be fantastic for you to speak to.

Julia Roberson: You know another amazing person that I think you should talk to? Her name is Lisa Dropkin. 

Quinn: Okay.

Julia Roberson: She is with a research firm called Edge-

Quinn: Okay.

Julia Roberson: Based in Arlington, Virginia. She has- I have worked with her for years and we have done a ton of research on what people respond to, what makes them, you know, care about some of these big, hairy issues, how it relates to, you know, all the other priorities that they have going on in their life. I've never not had an interesting conversation with this woman. She is just incredible.

Brian: Give me her last name again.

Julia Roberson: Dropkin, D-R-O-P-K-I-N.

Quinn: Okay. One more, what do we got, one more.

Julia Roberson: One more... So another one that is my personal favorite that I think you guys would just really get along with and have an awesome chat with, his name is Mike Boots. 

Quinn: Okay.

Julia Roberson: He was the acting chair for Obama- Obama's Council on Environmental Quality, basically the thing that is like now shattered.

Quinn: I was going to say, how has he enjoyed watching his life's work get wiped away?

Julia Roberson: Yeah. He's an optimist too, shocking.

Quinn: Jesus.

Julia Roberson: He was my old boss and he's amazing. He, so he- After he left the Obama White House, he did some work with the Aspen Institute and-

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: Is now with Bill Gates, not the Foundation but the private office and the work that Bill Gates is doing-

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: On climate and clean energy-

Quinn: Yeah, yeah, we'd love to, that's interesting.

Julia Roberson: In particular. He's just an incredible person-

Quinn: Cool.

Julia Roberson: And a great conversation. 

Quinn: Cool.

Julia Roberson: Those are my three off the top of my head.

Quinn: Lovely, that's super helpful thank you.

Brian: Yeah, thank you for that.

Quinn: We will hit, hit those humans up.

Julia Roberson: Yeah, you're so welcome.

Brian: All right, I don't know if you heard, but we did mention a lightning round earlier, and the time for-

Quinn: Ish.

Brian: It is now.

Quinn: Ish.

Julia Roberson: Oh, oh God, okay. You like hit me with the hard question right out of the gate, so now I'm curious what else is coming with the lightning round.

Brian: That sounds pretty good.

Quinn: They bounce around. Julia, this is just sort of my opener moment, when was the first time in your life when you realized you had the power of change or the power to do something meaningful?

Julia Roberson: What?

Quinn: Yeah, yeah.

Brian: Sorry, not sorry.

Quinn: Deal with it.

Julia Roberson: Oh, I think it was like, I think I was probably like eight years old-

Quinn: Okay.

Julia Roberson: Eight or ten years old. I was really upset because Walmart was coming into our town and they were going to put their, you know, superstore like basically in this Apple orchard that I thought was really pretty.

Quinn: Fucking, of course.

Julia Roberson: My mom was like-

Brian: Jesus.

Julia Roberson: "Why don't you write a letter?" And so, I wrote a letter. Jumping ahead, Walmart went in anyway.

Brian: Shocker.

Quinn: Well.

Julia Roberson: I very distinctly remember that feeling of like, oh wait, I can express my displeasure and point of view on something that I don't think, you know, should happen or would have, you know, an impact on our community. Thank you mom for telling me that I could do that.

Quinn: Yes, mom's are the awesome.

Brian: Mom's are the best.

Julia Roberson: Mom's are amazing.

Brian: That is so great.

Quinn: Moms make this place run.

Julia Roberson: They really do.

Quinn: Next one, who is someone in your life that's positively impacted your work in the past six months?

Julia Roberson: Oh, past six months.

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Getting specific. If you want to be like I'm Lebron and I roll solo, then it is what it is.

Julia Roberson: Oh God, not at all. I would say without a doubt it is the woman that I work most closely with, our CEO, Janis Searles Jones. 

Quinn: Okay.

Julia Roberson: She is an amazing person that you should also speak to. She is a litigator by training. She is the heart and soul of this organization. She has been fully supportive and engaged in, you know, the Blue Planet work that we've been doing, the work that we are continuing to do on climate, and is constantly thinking about ways that we can connect our bigger mission and what we're doing in Washington D.C. to-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: All of the communities that depend on the ocean. She's a real gut check for me, and, you know, a source of optimism and hope on that front.

Quinn: I love it.

Julia Roberson: Definitely, definitely Janis.

Quinn: Thanks Janis.

Brian: Julia, how do you consume the news?

Julia Roberson: Well, when I'm on a social-

Brian: From where, from where do you get your news?

Julia Roberson: When I'm on a social media break, I notice that I am much better about actually reading full stories. I-

Quinn: What does that mean?

Julia Roberson: I know, isn't that-

Brian: I love a full story.

Julia Roberson: I know. I read the whole article rather than just the headline-

Quinn: Fascinating.

Julia Roberson: And some random person's tweet about it. My go-to is the Washington Post and then I lived in London for about a decade, so I go first probably the BBC, and then the Washington Post. Then I also read this incredible gossip website called Lainey Gossip. If you are not reading Lainey Gossip you are missing out because it's not just celebrity gossip, it is all about what is happening in our culture and how we comment on things from, you know, women, to celebrities, to sports personalities, and she's got amazing book recommendations. She's the shit.

Quinn: Interesting [crosstalk 00:48:27].

Julia Roberson: She's based in Canada. She's amazing. You guys should definitely reach out to her.

Quinn: Fucking Canada, always with the good people.

Julia Roberson: Always with the good people.

Quinn: Brian, bring us home.

Brian: I'm going to bring us home. If you could Amazon Prime one book to Donald Trump, what would it be?

Julia Roberson: Oh my God.

Quinn: We have gotten a wide range of recommendations. Disclaimer as always, you don't have to assume he will read it, someone may read it to him. It could be a picture book, even an audio book, so let loose.

Julia Roberson: Oh my God. The first- One of my all-time favorite books is "The Bluest Eye" by Toni Morrison.

Quinn: Oh, good one.

Julia Roberson: That was like- That was right where my head went and then I was like, "He's never going to read that."

Quinn: Yeah, we know.

Julia Roberson: Then I went to "Goodnight Moon."

Quinn: So good.

Brian: Excellent book.

Quinn: So good.

Julia Roberson: Right?

Quinn: We'll take them both.

Julia Roberson: Yeah. Let's go with both of them, because, you know, you've got the race issue and then you've also got, you know-

Quinn: Sure.

Julia Roberson: We're all people, just wanting to go to bed safe, and sound, and happy.

Quinn: Yeah, absolutely.

Julia Roberson: If he could remember that, that would be great.

Quinn: I know you have about 90 seconds left. Last real question. How would you like to use this podcast to speak a little truth to power, last thing you want to say?

Julia Roberson: I would say that we need more people like you guys that are-

Quinn: Well.

Brian: Come on. 

Julia Roberson: Doing these things. This has been-

Brian: [inaudible 00:49:52]

Julia Roberson: This is great. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about this, to talk about the things that are super important to me, and, you know, so many of the people that work at Ocean Conservancy. So thank you. Thank you for listening. I hope you sign up. Go to oceanconservancy.org. We've got all sorts of ideas and ways that you could engage-

Quinn: Awesome.

Brian: Awesome.

Julia Roberson: And become an ocean lover like all of us here.

Quinn: Awesome, I guess that goes with our last question. Where can our listeners follow you on the internet?

Julia Roberson: Well, you can follow Ocean Conservancy, we're @ourocean on the Twitters-

Quinn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Julia Roberson: And we're at Ocean Conservancy on Facebook and Instagram.

Quinn: Awesome, awesome, awesome.

Brian: Perfect.

Quinn: Julia, this has been so fun once we've finally got it going. Brian.

Julia Roberson: Another dig.

Brian: Wow.

Quinn: Thank you so much for your time today, and for all that you do, and all your coworkers are doing, keeping the ocean running.

Julia Roberson: We are trying to. Thank you guys so much for listening. We are so excited that we get to get our message out to new and interesting people and that you guys are so fun to talk to, so thank you.

Quinn: Well, for now.

Brian: Ditto.

Quinn: You can say what you need to say after you get offline.

Quinn: All right Julia, have an awesome day. Thank you.

Julia Roberson: Thanks.

Brian: Thank you so much.

Julia Roberson: Talk to you guys soon.

Quinn: See ya, bye.

Brian: Ciao.

Julia Roberson: Okay, bye.

Quinn: Thanks to our incredible guest today and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute, or awesome workout, or dish washing, or fucking dog walking late at night, that much more pleasant.

Quinn: As a reminder, please subscribe to our free email newsletter at importantnotimportant.com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species. 

Brian: You can follow us all over the internet, you can find us on Twitter @importantnotimp... Just so weird. Also on Facebook and Instagram at Important Not Important. Pinterest and Tumblr the same thing. Check us out, follow us, share us, like us, you know the deal.

Brian: Please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this. If you're really fucking awesome rate us on Apple Podcast. Keep the lights on, thanks.

Quinn: Please.

Brian: You can find the show notes from today right in your little podcast player and at our website importantnotimportant.com.

Quinn: Thanks to the very awesome Tim Blane for our jamming music, to all of you for listening, and finally, most importantly, to our moms for making us. Have a great day.

Brian: Thanks guys.